çré-mucukunda uväca
ko bhavän iha sampräpto
vipine giri-gahvare
padbhyäà padma-paläçäbhyäà
vicarasy uru-kaëöake
(SB 10.51.27)
Synonyms
çré-mucukundaù uväca—çré Mucukunda said; kaù—who; bhavän—are You; iha—here; sampräptaù—arrived together (with me); vipine—in the forest; giri-gahvare—in a mountain cave; padbhyäm—with Your feet; padma—of a lotus; paläçäbhyäm—(which are like) the petals; vicarasi—You are walking; uru-kaëöake—which is full of thorns.
Translation
Çré Mucukunda said: Who are You who have come to this mountain cave in the forest, having walked on the thorny ground with feet as soft as lotus petals?
kià svit tejasvinäà tejo
bhagavän vä vibhävasuù
süryaù somo mahendro vä
loka-pälo paro ‘pi vä
(SB 10.51.28)
Translation
Perhaps You are the potency of all potent beings. Or maybe You are the powerful god of fire, or the sun-god, the moon-god, the King of heaven or the ruling demigod of some other planet.
manye tväà deva-devänäà
trayäëäà puruñarñabham
yad bädhase guhä-dhväntaà
pradépaù prabhayä yathä
(SB 10.51.29)
Translation
I think You are the Supreme Personality among the three chief gods, since You drive away the darkness of this cave as a lamp dispels darkness with its light.
Purport
Çréla Viçvanätha Cakravarté points out that with His effulgence Lord Kåñëa dispelled not only the darkness of the mountain cave but also the darkness in Mucukunda’s heart. In Sanskrit the heart is sometimes metaphorically referred to as guha, “cavern,” a deep and secret place.
I think You are the Supreme Personality among the three chief gods, since You drive away the darkness of this cave as a lamp dispels darkness with its light.
Wake Up Sleeping Souls!
Srila Bhakti Vinod Thakur in a wonderful prayer, he is as an eternal associate of Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu, he is pleading with all living beings to wake up from their deep spiritual sleep- Jéva jägo jéva jägo gauracanda bole kota nidrä jäo mäyä-piçäcéra kole. Wake up sleeping souls! Wake up! Lord Gauranga is calling. You are sleeping on the lap of the witch of the Maya, mukunda mädhava yädava hari, takes the Holy Names of Krsna. In fact we are all eternally part of Krsna. Krishna Consciousness knowledge of Krsna, love of Krsna it’s our natural spiritual condition. It is inherent within us. It is our real and only life. But somehow now the soul is sleeping, so deeply sleeping and in this deep slumber we are in a dream state. In this dream we are identifying with someone we are not with his mind which is filled with ever changing desires. This mind which is so turbulent and disturbed due to various attachments and we are dreaming that covering this mind is this gross body which is composed of five senses and each of these five senses is dragging the mind into deeper deeper realms of frustration due to their uncontrollable and insatiable desires to enjoy.
Our Body Like Chariot
Srila Prabhupada compared the body to the chariot. The sense to be like five wiled horses, the mind to be the rein that meant to control those horses but if the mind senses is weak then the horses the wiled untrained horses they carry the chariot to the most dangerous conditions and the driver holding those reins is our good God given human intelligence and the soul is the passenger sitting within that chariot. So we should know that in this condition it’s all a dream. We have nothing to do with this chariot, with these horses, with this mind and with this intelligence. We are dreaming, we are riding on this chariot. Our real awaken state is in our original, pure, spiritual body in the loving service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the librated condition. But we are asleep. And sometimes we have nice dreams when we experience pleasure in this world. And sometimes we experience terrible nightmares, the nightmares of frustration devastation and even death. Material life we find great educators, politicians, philanthropist they are very concerned that we have sweet dreams. This is the material idea. Before you go to bed at night your mother, your father they would say have sweet dreams, have a good night sleep but what kind of a blessing is that.
Anyways in material existence it’s a big blessing because sometimes we have terrible nightmares we don’t sleep at all we thought and we turn due to anxiety. But they are various varieties of sleeping in this material existence. And to try to have a nice dream but for the devotees it really doesn’t matter whether you have a nightmare or a nice dream what matters is you are waking up. You are coming to real senses. In fact sometimes when you having a nice dream you don’t want to wake up, have you ever had this experience? You having such a wonderful dream someone comes and says- Wake up! Wake up! It’s time for Mangal Aarti Ha… no such a nice dream! Let me just go on dreaming. And when you wake up you think no, no I want to continue this nice dream I never had, it so goods, so nice. When you having a nightmare terrible nightmare when you being eaten by a tiger or you are falling from mountain when everyone against you. We want to get out of this dream and you will do anything to get out of it and when someone comes they see you tossing and turning they say- Wake up! Wake up! Oh! Thank you very much. You are so wonderful, thank you.
Only Krsna Can Wake Us Up
So in this way whether it is a nightmare or whether it is a sweet dream, it’s all illusion, it’s all ignorance, it’s all sleep. Krishna Consciousness means to wake up from the sleep, to understand your real eternal form in the spiritual world. To understand the unlimited ecstatic joy of your love for Krsna and this is what Krsna has come to this world through so many vary incarnations and so many various devotees of the Lord their only business to wake us up. You are sleeping. Happiness, distress, honor, dishonor, pleasure, pain, heat, cold, success, failure it is all a dream wake up. But we become so attached to our sleepiness. We don’t want to wake up. It is only Krsna that can wake us up. There is no other power that can wake us from this dream of Maya. Maya has put us in deep slumber and only Krsna has the power to bring us out of this slumber.
daivé hy eñä guëa-mayé
mama mäyä duratyayä
mäm eva ye prapadyante
mäyäm etäà taranti te
[Bg. 7.14]
Krsna says- This material nature is very very difficult to overcome but one who surrenders to Me can come out of it. Krsna’s non different than His name, the sound vibration of Krsna’s name wakes us up. In fact guru Maharaj would often say that sound is the most powerful of all the material elements and when transcendental sound, spiritual sound comes in to our ears and into our heart it has more powerful effect than anything else. Just like when you are sleeping if some one writes on a black board Wake up please! Your eyes in sleep they don’t function. If some one like some nice incense we speak right through it but if someone says Wake up! See proof so many people just woke. Practical evidence no body sleeping now because the ear is always alert even when we are asleep. And that’s why we have alarm clock. Alarm clock wakes us through sound. Spiritual sound, the sound of God’s name wakes the soul, wakes the soul out of the sleep of Maya. Gives light into the darkness of our heart. Here Viswanath Chakravarti Thakur is explaining that sometimes the heart is called a ‘Guha’ Guha means cave but deep and secrete place because in this cave in this deep secrete place the soul is living side by side with the Paramatma or Krsna. But we don’t know where this cave is. We can’t way into this cave. Although it is the very essence of our life, our soul and Krsna and it is right within the heart. The heart is the focus of our entire existence physically without heart nothing else can function.
Consciousness of Soul Permeates Through Blood
The Vedas explain that the consciousness of the soul permeates through body, through the blood whether there is no blood circulation there is no sensation this is correct? Yes doctors. You say no then you challenging the Vedic authority. But they will not say no because they are devotee but even if they were atheist they would not say no because it’s true. You have seen if you tie your finger very tightly and the blood circulation stops there is not feeling. You can’t feel anything. What part of your bodies doesn’t get generation of blood? Your nails, your hair, there is no feeling because there is no blood where there is blood circulation there is the consciousness because the souls consciousness spread through the body through the blood and all the blood is being pumped from the soul in the heart from the heart to ever part of your body. Its essential control of consciousness for your entire body your heart. And when your heart stops you die. In a Koma your brain basically kind of stop doesn’t it. But still as long as your heart is working there is life. And as soon as the hearts stop there is death. We don’t calculate person living or dying by his brains waves we calculate by pulse by heart beat. Right? It means the heart is still working so the heart is the seed of life. But here it is explain it is secrete, deep, cavern or cave because we even don’t know what’s in our heart. These big big heart surgeons they don’t know what’s in the heart.
Recently one our devotee Nathaji Prabhu he had quadrupled by pass heart surgery. Whatever that means ha… so he went all a way to Clivendo Hile the United States of America and there one of the most famous, prestigious, learned heart surgeons performed his operation he is a great authority are knowing all the various auguries of the heart and how to like a good plumber by pass one type within others. But Nanthji was saying- very proud man, very proud man but ultimately he said you know something at the time after they take the heart and they actually stop it and they actually put it in eyes, they are actually dead from physical point of view and they just circulate with the machine. They keep your blood pumping in other parts of your body through machine and the heart is in cold storage it’s completely stop, it disconnected and it’s put in ice cold ice and they start cutting open your veins and sewing them unto they take veins from your legs and from your other parts of your body and they start sewing it into your heart and doing all these other things. Hari Bol… And then after they all done they take your heart out of the eyes and then all they can do it pray to God that it starts beating again because they have no power that make it beat they have no power that make it starting working again. At that time the doctors has prayed please my reputation is the stake, my profession is a stake, beside that is person’s life is stake. And then either it starts or it doesn’t start they can’t make it start. Either it’s start or doesn’t start. They can’t make it start. It is the question of whether Krsna wants you to go on live or not. It’s beyond human control at that point. But they don’t understand that who is it i.e. controlling the heart. Who is it that decides whether it’s going to start beating or stop beating? The Lord of the heart, Paramatma, Krsna. But He is hiding so deep in the cave of the heart. That the doctors can’t see it with their microscopes nor can we see Him. We can’t see Him because we are always looking in the other direction our whole life were looking outside through our senses, hearing outside through our senses, feeling outside through our senses. Trying to find some enjoyment and relief but Krsna is their, just waiting, waiting to reveal Himself to that devotee who is sincerely approach Him with humility and devotion. Just Gaurashakti Prabhu has revealed himself. Hari Bol… coming from Sri dham Mayapur. Krsna revels Himself according to our desire to wake up and that’s why Krsna says in Gita –
täni sarväëi saàyamya
yukta äséta mat-paraù
vaçe hi yasyendriyäëi
tasya prajïä pratiñöhitä
[Bg 2.61]
That unless we want to control our senses and fix our consciousness on Krsna we can never wake up because Krsna rewards us according to our desire as long as we are still aspiring for the enjoyments of this world. What we are doing is we are simply telling Krsna I want to go on sleeping, I want to continue this dream but when we saying no forget this dream to Krsna. I am going to live according to the regulative principles.
Over Sleeping Means Spiritual Death
Here we find a wonderful example that Mucukunda he was in deep deep sleep. He had beautiful palace, his armies, his kingdom which was so peaceful and unrivaled and he worked so hard in the service of the demigods that factually he never saw them again because he was fighting with such courage so hard for so many long years in the realms of the demigods he actually became above the particular time sequence of this earth planet so he knew as he was fighting them the demons that his wives, his children, his palace, all of his friends, all of his relatives they all died in due course and he continued fighting such a devotee such a selfless person because of his selfless service Krsna wanted to give him His special mercy because he was willing to put his own attachments aside for the benefit of others this attracted Krsna. And then Mucukunda being fatigued he wants to sleep. The demigods gave him benediction what would you like just let me sleep? You know when you tired really tired but when Krsna explains one who doesn’t sleep too much and doesn’t sleep too little, one who doesn’t eat too much or eat too little i.e. intelligence because if you eat too much you all experiencing it. You get lazy and seek. Right? Getting good experience like this. And when eat too little just like in Mayapur we experienced sometimes you become very weak you can’t function properly and if you sleep too much to become completely immersed in Tamoguna and all your senses become uncontrollable, person who sleeps too much can’t control any of his senses properly his mind becomes disturbed wasting his time. “Srila Prabhupada explained that over sleeping means spiritual death.” And so many other illusions are created by over sleeping. If you don’t sleep enough you are always in an anxiety. Your mind is always disturbed you are annoyed by the slightest little things. You are start offenses against devotees why you did like this? You should be like this. Ha…Why you said like this? Ha…you become very uncontrolled in our anger when we don’t get enough sleep because our mind, our intelligence and our body can’t function what to speak of when you don’t get enough sleep when try to chant the Holy Names- Hare Kåñëa, Hare Kåñëa, Kåñëa Kåñëa, Hare Hareeeeeee Hare Räma, Hare Rämammm Krsna Krsnaaaa Hare Räma Hare Räma, Hare Krsna Hare Krsna. Not very attentive chanting we have seen. Not only we have seen but we have done. So we must and we you are hearing Srimad Bhagvatam. Bhagvatam has says –
çåëvatäà sva-kathäù kåñëaù
puëya-çravaëa-kértanaù
hådy antaù stho hy abhadräëi
vidhunoti suhåt-satäm
[SB 1.2.17]
That one should be aspiring, hankering, eager to hear Srimad Bhagvatam we see when we don’t get enough sleep we come to Srimad Bhagvatam class and we sit very nicely and it’s like some background music and then somebody says- wake up! I am not sleeping! I am not sleeping! Why you accuse me as sleeping? You are offending me. I am not sleeping. I never sleep during Srimad Bhagvatam class. Well, what was said? I head every word of it. So what was said? Why you are asking? You don’t trust me? What was said? Was may be I was sleeping actually. We think we are hearing but at the end of the class you realize when you actually think back what was said you didn’t hear anything. Of course there is some benefit even if you are sleeping just the fact you have come that sound vibration is somehow or other reaching your soul no doubt but this is the very long process. So therefore sleeping properly is the sign of good intelligence.
Raghunath das Goswami his sleeping was on another level. He would sleep perhaps one or two hours a day and sometimes weeks would go buy when he was so busy chanting Hare Krsna and bowing down before Vaishnavas and serving Vaishnavas and writing wonderful books that he was just forget that it was time for sleep. He would just forget. He was too busy. But we can’t imitate such people. You try to imitate you will become agitated, disturbed and you will die spiritually. So Krsna says that His path is not for one who eats too much or eats too little. We must be regulated. Too much and we are simply surrendering to Maya, too little we are also surrendering to Maya. We have to use our intelligence. We have to have good guidance.
Process of Bhakti
Mucukunda he was sleeping so much sleeping but because he was so wonderful in his willingness to selflessly serve the devotees the Lord took it upon Himself to wake Him up. This is the process of Bhakti. You can’t wake up yourself. Only can Krsna can wake you up. And when will He wake you up, when will He reveal Himself within the cave of your heart when He sees that you are anxious to selflessly give up all your own concerns to please His devotees. Hari Bol… you should not lean against the wall. You are still leaning against the wall just like a bed for you just wall’s top was bed because Mucukunda was willing to perform just service with such humility and dedication Krsna Himself came to wake him up within the cave of His heart. Mucukunda is here sleeping within a cave a dark cave. And Krsna He brought complete light to that cave and reveals Himself. Similarly the cave of our heart you should know your soul is sleeping in darkness. In the cave of your heart your soul is sleeping in darkness and dreaming of all we call life. But if with proper Krishna Conscious direction we become selfless. We put aside our own material attachments for one purpose only to serve the devotees to assist the devotees in whatever we can then Krsna become so please with us that He personally wakes us up. He reveals Himself and brings light and love to our life. This is the process which I so wonderfully being revealed in this story.
Be Willing To Fight For Krsna
Krsna is non different than His name. And the name of God can wake us up in a moment. In fact the scriptures tell us we all have heard it that you chant the name of the Lord even once purely you wake up to your eternal constitutional nature of loving Krsna once but we are chanting so many times. Why still the soul is so much sleeping in the cave of heart? It is because Krsna who is non different His name, who is the Paramatma within our heart He appears within His name and gives complete light through His name to wake us up when we become like Mucukunda when we become a humble selfless servant until then Krsna doesn’t reveal His life through His name to us. So we must simultaneously chant very attentively and we must very very selflessly serve the Lord’s devotees. Make the mission of the Vaishnavas the mission of the Guru our life and soul. Be willing to fight for Krsna. Be willing to fight and endeavor any inconvenience in the service of Guru and Gauranga when we are truly willing and ready to do that Krsna will reciprocate but it’s not that we just do it once or twice Mucukunda did it his whole life and not just an ordinary life but a very extended life. He selflessly fought without expectation of anything material through years and year and years and years and then Krsna ha… you are truly a sincere devotee. You are a real humble servant. He came into the cave of Mucukunda sleepiness and gave light and revealed Himself. So understand that your soul is like Mucukunda sleeping in cave of your heart and Krsna is simply waiting, waiting for you to be so sincere to serve Him and to be the servant of His servant that He will come. He will come in your heart in the sound of His name –
Hare Kåñëa, Hare Kåñëa, Kåñëa Kåñëa, Hare Hare
Hare Räma, Hare Räma, Räma Räma, Hare Hare
Kalayavan – Embodiment of The Sin
And wake you up and what was you perceive when you wake up you perceive Krsna every where, Krsna in everything. Mucukunda so wonderful as he looking upon the beautiful beautiful form of Govind, Vasudeva Krsna. He so much charmed but he ecstasy of His transcendental form that he is immediately with great humility. In the same way Kalayavana, Kalayavana was sin personified. He was the embodiment of the sin. Before Mucukunda was able to see Krsna first he had to burn Kalayavana to ashes. In the same way just like we were speaking last night Srinivas was asking about the relationship between libration and pure devotion. Darkness is removed in preliminary stages in the path of devotional service and after all that darkness is removed then Krsna reveals Himself. Just like in the early morning first before the sun appears light emanates and gives depilation of all darkness then the sun personally appears on the horizon. In the same way through the chanting of Krsna’s name and through dedicated selfless service to His devotees under the guidance of the spiritual master. What happens is sins are removed. All of our sinful reactions and all of our sinful propensities are removed they are destroyed then Krsna reveals Himself. Kayalavana was sleeping in the darkness of his cave as our soul is sleeping in the darkness of the cave of the heart but because of his devotional service he had the opportunity to see his sins face to face. He saw Kalayavana face to face. And he burns him to ashes. Similarly as we make spiritual progress all of our material desires and sins come make it right before our eyes in the cave of the heart then through the process of hearing and chanting we have to destroy those sinful propensities and when they are dead then Krsna reveals Himself. And when Krsna reveals Himself there is no question.
When You Are Krishna Conscious?
Prabhupada was asked how to you know when you are Krishna Conscious. Prabhupada said- No one has to tell you. When you eat a full meal no body has to tell you- you are full. I think some of these New Vrindavan devotees they have nice experience of this. When Radhapriya or one of the host of the house that you are taking prasad at they don’t have to come and say you are now full. No. You tell her I am full. Please get away from here I am full. No more. I am satisfied. I am too satisfied. In the same way when we perceive Krsna’s mercy we become so eternally ecstatic in transcendental satisfaction i.e. the perfection of our life to come out of this sleep and see Krsna every where. And serve Krsna every where. Of course Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur he said- don’t try to see Krsna but try to serve Krsna in such a way that He sees you. What does that mean? It means that you really have no power to see Krsna but if you serve Krsna nicely if He wants to see you then He reveals Himself to you. And then you can even see him either in Sambhoga or Vipralamba. You will see Him either in face to face or in separation. But in either way you will always be in the presence of Krishna Consciously. There any questions? Yes. Gaurashakti Prabhu.
Devotee : Maharaj you said that you purely chant calling a Krsna then Krsna reveal or appears to you now this vision is reveal or this is [Not Audible]
Maharaj : If you actually chant purely then that vision is eternal can never be lost but to chant purely even once is very difficult. It will take perhaps our whole life in training and prayer so that we can even one time chant the Holy Name of Krsna purely. You see there is offense less chanting, chanting without the committing of the ten offenses to the Holy Name through that process gradually we are relieved of all of our sins. But far more elevated than offense less chanting is pure chanting where we have no other desire than service or our heart is devoid of any desire but service to the Lord i.e. pure chanting. Sometimes in reflections of pure chanting in more less advances stages we can actually taste unlimited pleasure in the Holy Name and experience unbelievable joy in hearing and thinking of Krsna but because our chanting is not completely pure those experiences they are sometimes forgotten. Therefore we have to continue on on the path of Bhakti in the path of selfless service. Any other questions?
Devotee : Krsna fulfills [Not Audible]
Maharaj : But he served in such a way that pleases Krsna so Krsna made him perfect.
ananyäç cintayanto mäà
ye janäù paryupäsate
teñäà nityäbhiyuktänäà
yoga-kñemaà vahämy aham
[Bg. 9.22]
That if you surrender to Me I will preserve what you have and carry what you lack even if you filled with imperfections. If you please Krsna He can make you perfect just try to please Krsna. Even if you do have some material desires in your heart Krsna can remove them all if you just please Him. You see Mucukunda he may had some by our calculations we may think he didn’t really have such an unmotivated spirit when he ask to go to please but he please Krsna and he had to get some final purification he was kicked by Kalayavana. Kalayavan was really Maya. So similarly when we please Krsna sometimes He sent Maya to kick us. Hari Bol… [Laughing] And its not very comfortable Maya kicks us. So he was inconvenience by the kick and he killed the sins within the cave of his heart and then Krsna revealed Himself. This all took place by Krsna’s arrangement. Krsna sent that Kalayavana to kick him. Similarly Krsna will send so many kicks of Maya into our life to help wake us up. And through all this if we simply please Him He will reveal Himself to us even if we have so many faults, even if we have so many short comings. Jagai and Madhai so many faults and short comings but some how or other Jagai stop Madhai from smashing Nityananda’s head for the second time and just by doing that He please Lord Caitanya and Lord Caitanya causelessly embraced him and gave him love of God. So the path of Bhakti is ultimately only for one purpose – Saàsiddhir hari-toñaëam [SB 1.2.13]. To please Krsna. Yes.
Devotee : Maharaj what’s the difference between chanting before and after receive through initiation from bonafide spiritual master?
Maharaj : The potency comes when we submit our selves before Krsna’s representative. The fact is that any one within this Hare Krsna movement initiated or uninitiated has received the mantra from responsible representatives of the Parampara and therefore I initiated or uninitiated because you have receive the mantra from perhaps one of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples who received from Prabhupada who received it from Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur who received from Gaura Kishor, Bhakti Vinod and the potency of the disciplic succession is within that sound vibration and if we are serving those great souls then the potency has even is more reveal to us. At the time of initiation or diksha we make vows you see we will read in the Shashtra that the chanting of Mahamantra is not dependent on any formalities if we simply receive it from the proper source, from the proper service attitude but this vow that takes place at the time of diksha is when there is a very distinct concentrated reciprocation between the disciple and the guru and that time our whole spiritual life and the mantra that we receive from him is formally connected, formally and eternally connected to all for the previous Acharyas and ultimately back to Krsna. So in this way it is not that our chanting in the uninitiated is not bonafide or has no potency it has unlimited potency but that potency is eternally connected at that time of diksha and i.e. very necessary the certain stage of our spiritual development. But of course we should know “initiation isn’t just the ceremony but in initiation is the commitment”. It’s not just some formality that connects you eternally but exact resolve and that commitment, some people are initiated but they never initiated. If you take diksha without that commitment it really doesn’t mean much of anything. But if the spiritual master is a proper spiritual master who is truly revealing what the previous Acharyas have given and the disciple really sincerely wants to serve and wants to follow and at that time that formality of initiation has the great potency of connecting us formal eternal connection. Any one else like to comment on this question? Vrajatirtha Maharaj, Holyname Maharaj genuine any comment? Any other questions? Yes Abhimanyu Prabhu.
Abhimanyu Prabhu: Maharaj you said that person who is awakened how does he know whether you have become Krishna Conscious? And Prabhupada said that when you have eaten enough you know that you have full no one else has to tell you. This is for the person answer but what about the other person how does he know that a person is actually full because somebody may pretend.
Maharaj : You don’t know. You can’t know. It takes one to know one. Unless you are librated soul you really don’t know who is librated and even if you are librated soul you may not know who is librated. But there are certain symptoms which indicate and that’s all we have to go by and the scriptures give those symptoms of who a pure devotee of the Lord is or who an advance devotee of the Lord is. You may not know the dippiest condition of his heart. You can’t know but you can see the person is only speaking what the previous Acharyas speaking. He is only doing what the previous Acharyas have done. Whatever the Gita says he is living by those principles, he is not chasing after sense gratification. He is not concern with sense gratification. Whenever we see him, whenever he hear him he is serving Krsna and he is aspiring me to serve Krsna and love Krsna. If a person has those qualities then we can understand that he is guiding us to love Krsna. Whether he is completely pure or not, you can’t understand but if he is not doing those things you can understand there is definitely something wrong. And as long as he is doing those things he can guide you the perfect guide for you. Yes.
Devotee : More questions about initiation. You discussed about that link that comes during initiation through the previous Acharyas.
Maharaj : It is a formal link but actually as soon as you accept the spiritual master in your heart and dedicates your life to him i.e. the most important link. The initiation is formalizing that. Just like Srila Prabhupada he met Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur and he wasn’t initiated for many many years after. Almost ten years later but on the first meeting he told us at that very time I accepted within my heart that this is my guru maharaj. And he surrendered to him and he dedicated his whole life that first meeting. That was far greater than initiation. The initiation took place at Allahabad at the Rupa Goswami Gaudia Matha that was simply the formalizing of the commitment and the connection had already take place.
Devotee : What exactly that connection?
Maharaj : Connection means just like this light. There is an electrical current. Will this bulb give light unless is connected to the current? So what is the connection? It means coming in contact with the current. “Krsna’s mercy is coming through the disciplic succession like a current.” And each spiritual master is like an outlet which is giving us the chance to connect with that eternal current. Now sometimes we find historically its rare occasions as Kaliyuga progresses sometimes little less. Sometimes an outlet not functions. What does that mean? Is there anything wrong with the current? At that time you simply have to plug in where you can connect. That current of Krsna’s mercy gives your soul your consciousness is like this light bulb. When it’s connected they becomes full of light but it disconnected it simply dark. So how is that connection made? Krsna says –
tad viddhi praëipätena
paripraçnena sevayä
upadekñyanti te jïänaà
jïäninas tattva-darçinaù
[Bg. 4.34]
The guru is giving the connection by instructing you. By his words which are transcendental sound vibration he is giving you the chance to connect. And if you inquire submissively and follow his words by rendering service then you are reciprocating and you are connecting with that mercy. If the guru is speaking the truth and he is connected to that current. If you simply inquire submissively, hear submissively and follow those teaching through devotional service i.e. the connection. “Siksha Guru means through his instruction he is connecting you to that current to inspiring you, he is connecting you to the current of Krsna’s mercy which will take you Back to Godhead.” And the “Diskha Guru he is formally what would you say substantiating that connection.” Now sometimes the Siksha Guru and the Diksha Guru is the one. Sometimes the Diksha Guru may be but there other Siksha Guru but there function and purpose is essentially the same. To keep you connected through there words to the current of Krsna’s mercy. That answers your question? Yes.
Devotee : In Florida one time we had a class given by Bhaktipada and there was nice people coming and serving but they didn’t want have anything to do with guru and all this. And questions is what about the American that they coming? Are they serving guru? Bhaktipada said- yes just by coming and helping in temple they even if they don’t know they are not serving guru, they get benefit.
Maharaj : That is not initiation. That is “Ajnata Sukriti”. “Ajnata Sukriti means that knowing or unknowing if you have any connection to Krsna through service.” Then there that is the beginning of our spiritual life. And because of that beginning Krsna becomes little please and He gives opportunity to advance and to develop. But if we want to actually advance in spiritual life we have to go beyond the point of Ajnata Sukriti. Ajnata Sukriti Krsna does open the doors for us but then we have to go through that door. And that’s the process of surrendering to Krsna.
Devotee : They were going to given an opportunity then in the future they engage.
Maharaj : They were making an initial connection to Krsna by the grace of the devotees. There spiritual life is beginning and as soon as your spiritual life begins and Krsna will always make more and more arrangements for you to continue. But then we have the independent choice whether we want to continue or not. But once you begin Krsna will never ever leave you again for the rest of eternity so He will keep giving you opportunities then sometimes He will sent Kalayavan to kick you. [Laughing]
Devotee : Maharaj, you mention about symptoms like certain sign that you we can just get feeling somebody is pure like following the previous Acharyas and living by the principles of the Gita and always serving such a person may not be pure but still he can be a guide. So can he guide all the way Back to Godhead or will he guide to another one?
Maharaj : If he is actually living in the humble service of his spiritual master then he is on the clear and straight road Back to Godhead. And you may be way way way less than him. And he is bringing but as he is bringing you up he is going up. So he will take Back to Godhead because his Gurudev is bringing him Back to Godhead he will bring you Back to Godhead. But if he lets go of his guru maharaj’s lotus feet then he can’t bring you any further because he is not going any further. So therefore we see as long as the person is living in such a way to please the previous Acharyas and he is speaking correctly and he is living correctly that person can bring you Back to Godhead. Yes.
Devotee : Maharaj we always focusing on the position of the Guru but isn’t it equally for more important to consider the position of the disciple? Even if the Guru is not perfect, even if he is not really on the highest platform of pure devotion if the disciple is surrender then Krsna will have that devotee to the highest peak if i.e. what his surrender is. So the disciple is surrender to disciple is more important than the position of guru. Is that correct?
Maharaj : No. In the sense that if the blind lead the blind they both fall in to the ditch. “Srila Prabhupada when he would talk about what he would quote on bogus gurus he would say however the so called sincere the disciple is if he takes the bogus guru then both go in to hell.” Prabhupada would say like this. So if the spiritual master is in the proper line of authorized teachings and it is actually imparting those and training the disciple in that way you see even if we may say the disciple is very sincere but if he sincerely follow the wrong thing is being mislead. He has to use discrimination. He has to follow someone to recognize to be giving the right in right way by his words and by his example and after that point then what you are saying as truth. If the disciple is actually really sincere and really trying to surrender and the spiritual master is giving the right thing to surrender and he surrendering to that right thing then he is pleasing Krsna. You see however great a guru is if the disciple is not sincere and really haven’t the proper qualifications of surrender the guru can’t take him anywhere. In this sense what you are saying is true. Once we find that if we have the proper direction from the proper representative of Krsna’s parampara then we have no longer any as long as we see that there is nothing wrong there is nothing else to think about whether the guru is bonafide or not. The rest of our life we have to think of how bonafide we are? Are we are? Are we a bonafide disciple? Am I surrendering, am I submissive, am I humble, am I serving, am I making my gurus order my life and soul? To that degree you can receive the mercy coming through the spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada no one questions whether he was a perfect guru but we she some of his disciples are advancing and flourishing wonderfully and some of them are not really manifesting hardly any symptoms of devotional service. Krsna says –ye yathä mäà prapadyante täàs tathaiva bhajämy aham. He reciprocates according to how you approach Him through your guru. According to He reveals Himself to you through the words if Guru then if you take the lightly the words of the guru then that’s your problem. Then even the greatest spiritual master in the whole universe can I help you. But if you are really seriously living by the proper qualities of the disciple aspiring and striving under proper direction from the bonafide spiritual master then he will definitely Go Back to Godhead. You will definitely gain pure devotional service. If you are so sincerely following the proper instructions of one who is repeating the truth then Krsna is going to take you Back to Godhead. If your guru is not an Uttama Adhikari at this particular point as he is becoming Utttam Adhikari he will give you higher and higher realizations and if you are surrendering to the message he is giving which is in his message you can become Uttam Adhikari even despite. Ha… Srila Prabhupada used always say that the father wants the son to be better than him. Right? Srila Prabhupada wanted us to do more than he did. Srila Prabhupada wanted us to become more advanced than he was. Pure devotees never think that they are very advance they are but they never think that but “it is the greatest offense in the creation when a disciple is think that he is more advance than his guru.” It’s the greatest offense when the disciple thinks I can do more than my guru. The guru says you should do more than me and should be more advance than me but we should understand whatever we do with his grace. Right? Did Prabhupada ever think he did more than Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati? Prabhupada thought Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati is doing everything. I am only his instrument. Did Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati think more than Bhakti Vinod? He was thinking no Bhakti Vinod doing everything. But if you ask Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati he will say my disciples doing better than I did. And if you ask Bhakti Vinod he would say my son is doing more than I could ever do. This is the nature of Vaishnava humility. The guru is saying you would be better than me but the disciple would never thinking- I can be better than my guru because my whole life is resting on his grace. That answers your question.
Devotee : Yes Maharaj. But the bottom line seems to be sincerity of purpose. I mean we may try to make so many philosophical manipulations in our mind. And you know the examples of Prabhupada give about qualities of gold and things like that. You may try when Kaliyuga we don’t have the intelligence to what’s what. We may try but ultimately if it is sincerity purpose Krsna will protect isn’t it? Ultimately if you go to some person and there is a problem. It’s by Krsna’s will because we surrender to Krsna and Krsna took us to him and Krsna will take us some one else. In other words because our ultimate connection is to Krsna all that we have to be worried about is how we sincere? Isn’t it? There is no other problem there is no other fear.
Maharaj : Ultimately Yes. But immediately how do we express that sincerity. We have to utilize our power of discrimination to exercise that sincerity but ultimately it is that sincerity that will attract Krsna to either lead us properly or improperly.
Devotee: Thank you Maharaj.
HHRM: Thank you.
Devotee : Maharaj is it possible else out of the four authorized sampradayas the person can be purely representing the supreme Lord?
Maharaj : There are other religions. There is Islam, Christianity, pure land Buddhism there are other religions in this world. Which the Acharyas recognizes authorized path on self realization. But these particular four sampradayas are the means by which we can directly connect with Krsna, the personality of Godhead and enter into loving relationship with Him. Other religions they are giving realizations of love of God but God in other forms, same Supreme one God but they are giving less in realizations of that one supreme God. If we want to actually enter into that rasa into that loving rasa with Krsna or Rama or Narayan it is only through these four disciplic successions because they are teaching that the other religions simply don’t teach that. They don’t teach rasa with God, loving reciprocation in the spiritual world with God. They don’t even talk about the spiritual world. They basically teach us how to be obedient to God and how to live by the rules of God which are very preliminary and no doubt through that processes you can develop love of God but it is a very preliminary stage of love of God. To actually enter into the loving affairs of the Lord these disciplic successions are teaching that information. Not only teaching that information but they are giving us entrance into that grace. So we may say religion is one but they are one and different. We are not successerian but we must understand and appreciate the distinct quality that this disciplic succession is giving us i.e. not to be found in the other religions of the world.
Devotee: Thank you.
Maharaj : That’s why at the beginning of the Hare Krsna movement one devotee ask Prabhupada why don’t we name the society as International society for God Consciousness because in the world western world people don’t know who is Krsna? They are confused by this word Krsna. They don’t know He is God. But everyone knows God. God is the Supreme Being. God is accepted and understood in every religion. And Prabhupada said No, absolutely no. We are not teaching God consciousness we are teaching Krishna Consciousness because God is a very big preliminary conception of the absolute but Krsna is the crystal clear Samam bhunam of the absolute truth unless you approach in this way you can never achieve that understanding. Let them understand or not understand but we must preserve of the dignity of what our Acharyas have given us Krsna. Hari Bol…
